Tim O’Brien, a name synonymous with bluegrass excellence, has graced the music scene for over four decades. His seemingly effortless talent in singing, musicianship, and songwriting has solidified his esteemed position within the bluegrass community and beyond. This idea of “seemingly effortless” could even be applied to his career trajectory, where each step appeared to flow naturally from the last. From forming a Western swing alter ego within a bluegrass band to collaborating with his sister Mollie O’Brien on duet albums, receiving a Grammy nomination for his Bob Dylan interpretations, and drawing connections between Appalachian and Irish traditional music, O’Brien’s journey reflects a deep-rooted musical exploration, anchored by his West Virginian-Irish heritage. In many ways, each project he undertakes is like a crucial Car Band Part, essential for the overall vehicle of his artistic expression to function and move forward.
However, beneath this unassuming demeanor lies a deeply thoughtful artist, one who infuses his work with intention and purpose. As our featured BGS Artist of the Month for July, we had the privilege of delving into O’Brien’s musical origins and the stories behind some of his most notable projects, exploring the key components, or car band parts, that have shaped his remarkable career.
(Editor’s Note: Read the first half of our interview with Tim O’Brien.)
Early Professional Forays and the Birth of a Musical Journey
BGS: Can you pinpoint when you first decided to pursue music as a profession?
TO: Back in the fall of ‘73, I made a pivotal decision to step away from college and explore the possibility of earning a living through music, primarily playing guitar and a bit of fiddle. I was still in the early stages of learning at that time. I saved diligently to buy a car, which became my initial car band part for mobility, and ventured to Jackson Hole. There, I played in bars and any venue that would have me. I reconnected with friends from a summer camp who were also spending the winter there. Then, in the fall of ‘74, I found myself in Boulder and briefly joined a bluegrass band named Town and Country Revue. This band was connected to a music store where I worked briefly. It was during this time that I met someone who was starting the Ophelia Swing Band, and I became a member for about three years. Dan Sadowsky, who later became known as “Pastor Mustard” at the Telluride Bluegrass Festival, was our frontman.
While we incorporated some bluegrass elements, we didn’t strictly define ourselves as a bluegrass band. We had string instruments, but our focus was primarily on swing music. I was playing both guitar and fiddle at this point and even borrowed a mandolin for a while before acquiring my own Nugget in ‘76. We were heavily influenced by the Cab Calloway style of hepster swing. Linda Joseph, another violin player in the group, and I would play twin fiddle parts in a Western swing style. We aimed for big band arrangements, incorporating call and response between the instruments. We were essentially creating our sound as we went, but thoroughly enjoying the process. Each instrument, like a car band part, contributed to the overall swing sound we were crafting.
We recorded an album, [Swing Tunes of the 30’s & 40’s], for Biscuit City, a Denver-based label that also released my solo record. The album was released in ‘77, but I had already left the band just before its release. I briefly relocated to Minneapolis but returned to do a short series of gigs with them during the summer. I attempted to establish myself in Minneapolis, but then Pete Wernick called with the idea of forming a group. Coincidentally, my girlfriend at the time, shortly before we got married, was considering moving back to Colorado. So, we returned in January of ‘78 to start Hot Rize, which became another crucial car band part in my musical journey.
Red Knuckles and The Trailblazers: Comedy and Musical Contrast
BGS: Your description of the Ophelia Swing Band’s material brings to mind Red Knuckles and The Trailblazers. The Trailblazers segment of Hot Rize shows has always been enjoyable because the music is excellent, yet it’s presented with a comedic facade, much like Homer & Jethro. How did this presentation develop, and what initially drew you to playing that type of music?
The genesis was Pete’s suggestion to form a bluegrass band to promote our respective records. I had just released Guess Who’s in Town on Biscuit City, and Pete had released Dr. Banjo Steps Out. I agreed, but expressed my desire to explore musical styles beyond traditional bluegrass, mentioning Hank Williams-esque material or Western Swing. I asked Pete if he had ever played the Dobro. He hadn’t, but he was open to getting one (he ended up with a lap steel), which allowed us to incorporate those sounds. This willingness to experiment with different instruments was like adding new car band parts to our musical vehicle.
Our first guitar player, Mike Scapp, an incredibly talented instrumentalist who also played with the Ophelia Swing Band, was part of the initial lineup. However, his tenure was short-lived. When he left, Charles Sawtelle, who had been playing bass, switched to guitar. When Nick Forster joined, we informed him about our country and western material, and he mentioned owning a Charlie Christian Gibson electric archtop guitar and his familiarity with that style. Suddenly, we had electric guitar, steel guitar, acoustic guitar, and bass. (Charles would revert to bass for this segment as he didn’t play that style on guitar.) So, during four-set bar gigs, we would dedicate the third set to this material to provide variety. We’d announce, “We’re bringing another band up here,” but remain on stage and simply switch instruments. We’d joke about the band’s name – using various silly names – and incorporate stage banter and a different musical style. This instrument switching and persona change became a vital car band part of our live shows, adding layers of entertainment.
About two years into the band’s formation, we had a formal concert at City Park in Denver, in a beautiful theater sponsored by the Denver Folklore Center. I believe it was Charles who suggested, “Why not do a quick change? We’ll wear cowboy outfits and actually become a different band.” We rehearsed the basic routine where Pete would introduce us while three of us changed outfits. Then we’d reappear as a different band, with Pete completing his quick change last. That night, we christened ourselves Red Knuckles and the Trailblazers. Even though the audience, primarily bluegrass and folk music enthusiasts familiar with Pete and Charles, knew it was us, they embraced the performance. It proved successful, so we continued incorporating it.
The following fall, we played at the free bluegrass festival in Louisville, sponsored by Kentucky Fried Chicken. A radio host interviewing us declared, “I want to interview Hot Rize, but I really want to interview Red Knuckles and the Trailblazers.” We agreed and adopted the Trailblazers persona. When she inquired about our origins, we fabricated answers, improvising details about being from Wyoming, Montana (bordering Wyoming and Montana), and the Eat Cafe. These were just jokes that might have surfaced during car rides, but they became our backstory after that interview. Afterwards, we looked at each other and realized, “Well, I guess that’s our story now. We have to remember it!” [Laughs] This spontaneous storytelling, much like a car band part unexpectedly fitting into place, defined the Red Knuckles persona.
That’s how it all began. I had always wanted to play that style of music and wanted to do it authentically. However, the act was also about not taking ourselves too seriously. It was immensely beneficial to Hot Rize to have that as a contrasting element. Whenever we mentioned the Trailblazers, we would make a disparaging remark about them as if they were a rival band. This helped establish a lighthearted atmosphere, which was very helpful.
Standing Out and Embracing Musical Diversity
BGS: Yes, I can imagine it was incredibly helpful, not only as a way to differentiate yourselves but also because, coming from Colorado and playing a progressive style of bluegrass, the Hot Rize material likely sounded even more traditionally bluegrass when contrasted with the Trailblazers.
That contrast is likely why we received the Entertainer of the Year award the first year it was presented at IBMA; we had a show. At that time, bands like Doyle Lawson & Quicksilver, The Johnson Mountain Boys, and the Nashville Bluegrass Band were emerging. The Johnson Mountain Boys also incorporated showmanship, but the other two bands primarily performed standing at their individual microphones. While I deeply admired and still admire those bands, having a show format was advantageous for us. It relieved some of the pressure from the music itself, allowing our music to simply be what it was. We weren’t measuring ourselves against those other bands as intensely as we might have otherwise. This show element, this extra car band part, gave us a unique edge.
It took time for promoters to understand it. Some traditional festivals were resistant to it. At the CBA festival in Grass Valley, California, they were hesitant about even having electric bass, but they made an exception for Hot Rize. However, they wouldn’t allow us to perform as the Trailblazers. The same initial resistance occurred at Doyle Lawson’s festival. Milton Harkey remarked, “Oh, don’t misunderstand, I love the harmonies,” which indicated he hadn’t actually heard the Trailblazers since they didn’t feature much harmony singing. But after our performance, his fans advocated for the Trailblazers, explaining the concept, and they started allowing us to perform that segment.
For festivals like Grass Valley, I believe they simply had strict rules about what constituted bluegrass. But for others like Doyle Lawson’s festival, their initial concern was likely about attracting a different crowd – perhaps they were wary of “bikers” or “hippies” associated with electric music and potential disruptions.
Navigating Traditional Spaces and Audience Perceptions
BGS: What was your experience like playing in these traditional, and sometimes conservative, environments?
We were consistently seen as the comedic act. Our hairstyles were considered too voluminous and long, and our ties were deemed incorrect. We aimed to fit in by wearing suits, but we never concealed who we were. Bluegrass, since the ‘60s at least, has always attracted diverse fans, including Northerners or city dwellers who may not have grown up with the banjo but appreciate it and even playfully acknowledge their outsider status. I believe that’s part of the beauty of music; it’s inclusive. It’s subjective, and anyone can enjoy any genre of music and art. Individual responses are varied and valid. People react to music differently and adapt it to express themselves. This open and accepting nature of bluegrass, like a universal car band part, allows for diverse elements to connect and create something special.
(Editor’s Note: Read the first half of our interview with Tim O’Brien.)
Photo credit: Scott Simontacchi
